Atheists: Winning since 33 A.D.
Submitted by Abortions Tickle on Sat, 2007-12-08 12:19
Poll
Random Quote
"Desiring [something] with a state of mind that becomes an obsession, then planning definite ways and means to aquire [it], and backing those plans with persistence which does not recognize failure, will bring [success]."
- Napoleon Hill
Random Bible Verse
"The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly."
- Proverbs 20:30 (KJV)
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The Republicans to control the House of Representatives after 2010 Congressional Elections
what?????????????
what?????????????
GOD SHALL NOT BE INTIMIDATED
GOD SHALL NOT BE INTIMIDATED INTO AN EARLY RETURN
You're missing the point,
You're missing the point, this statement is about disproving the existence of god. If there is no god, then jesus is irrelevant because there is no god to have a son. Disproving gods existence means he can't have a son because he isn't real. Christianity is modern mythology. Some day people will look back on it the same way we look back on those who worshiped Jupiter, Zeus, Osiris, Ra, Odin and a whole slew of other gods and goddesses that today seem utterly ridiculous to pray to, but during the heights of their popularity, you'd be stoned for publicly proclaiming their non-existence. The difference is, you were one of the weak willed ones who allowed yourself to be guilt tripped and scared into believing, now you're so used to the idea that you'll go to hell for not believing, that you're too afraid to think for your self. Your church thrives on the premise that it's followers will remain scared and not think too much. Intelligent thought is the anti religion. So go continue giving away your hard earned money to a mortal man, because he's convinced you that it's what a higher power wants you to do. Also, if there is actually an after life, I'd prefer hell with the sane, intelligent people over a heaven filled with you christian nut jobs.
Is it worth noting that
Is it worth noting that Epicurus lived around 300BC? - would never have heard of Jesus.
where in that poster did it
where in that poster did it mentioned jesus???
Please read
Please read http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Exceptionally good book. Totally topic related here.
Yeeee yeeee, mofos. I am
Yeeee yeeee, mofos.
I am God.
You fools, I will send all your souls to hell
This reminds me of an
This reminds me of an arguement I put on a message board a few minutes ago:
If God knows everything, he knows what we will do before we do it, and we can do nothing to deviate from that, then we don't have free will, because we can't do anything but what he already knows we will do. So we don't have free will.
But then how does He decide whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell? If we can't choose what we do, surely whether or not we sin is moot, since we can't do anything but what he knows we're going to do?
Also, from here, we can assume that since we have a set path, and everything we do is already decided, that those decisions, that path we must take was created by, well, the creator, God. God is therefore responsible for every bit of human suffering ever commited, since he decided it would happen, thus making him evil, and making any humans in hell undeserving, mere marrionettes in God's depraved puppet show. This gets around the whole "well moral evil is down to free will" since that's an illusion, and He is pulling the strings all along. Either God is evil or not omniscient (or omnipotent - if He doesn't know something, He has no power over it, meaning that He isn't all-powerful either). Either way, he's either evil, poweless/knowledgeless or not real at all. He's not all-powerful but evil, since the "big rock" thing overrules omnipotence, so either He's a cripple by theistic standards, or He's a completely fictional character. Either way, He's not worth my worship.
this is an old one... and
this is an old one... and creationists and theists (the smart ones) can explain it away quite easily.
basically, the refutation to this "god knows what we will do so we don't have free will" argument is that god doesn't experience time the way we do. there is no past or future for god because he exists outside of time. so, he knows what we have done and what we WILL do because he sort of sees it all at once.
make sense?
quote --> "this is an old
quote -->
"this is an old one... and creationists and theists (the smart ones) can explain it away quite easily.
basically, the refutation to this "god knows what we will do so we don't have free will" argument is that god doesn't experience time the way we do. there is no past or future for god because he exists outside of time. so, he knows what we have done and what we WILL do because he sort of sees it all at once.
make sense?"
No, no it doesn't make sense and thats the point. i mean, what kinda responce is that? god exists outside of time my ass.
On a related note, im giving you three hundred billion dollars tomarrow, but the money will be transfered via a bank that exists outside of time.
quote --> "this is an old
quote -->
"this is an old one... and creationists and theists (the smart ones) can explain it away quite easily.
basically, the refutation to this "god knows what we will do so we don't have free will" argument is that god doesn't experience time the way we do. there is no past or future for god because he exists outside of time. so, he knows what we have done and what we WILL do because he sort of sees it all at once.
make sense?"
No, no it doesn't make sense and thats the point. i mean, what kinda responce is that? god exists outside of time my ass.
On a related note, im giving you three hundred billion dollars tomarrow, but the money will be transfered via a bank that exists outside of time.
quote --> "this is an old
quote -->
"this is an old one... and creationists and theists (the smart ones) can explain it away quite easily.
basically, the refutation to this "god knows what we will do so we don't have free will" argument is that god doesn't experience time the way we do. there is no past or future for god because he exists outside of time. so, he knows what we have done and what we WILL do because he sort of sees it all at once.
make sense?"
No, no it doesn't make sense and thats the point. i mean, what kinda responce is that? god exists outside of time my ass.
On a related note, im giving you three hundred billion dollars tomarrow, but the money will be transfered via a bank that exists outside of time.
Actually, no. Maybe I'm
Actually, no. Maybe I'm simply having a particularly dense day, but your point does absolutely nothing to "explain it away." It makes no difference whether god exists in our mortal space-time continuum; what matters is the idea that an omniscient god would necessarily have to know everything that we will wind up doing at any point in our lives. Even if he knows every possible alternative we could choose to do/perform/take (which he should, being all-knowing), he would still know the single option we would settle on at any given fork in the road. Thus, even if god does not exist in our perception of time (which makes sense to me), he already knows our exact future, because he "sort of sees it all at once."
How, then, can any Christian claim to have any real role in shaping his life if he subscribes to the idea of an all-knowing deity? The predestinationists had the right idea. Since god knows all, he already knows where we are going. Thus, everything we do is for nothing, because we are already destined for some as-yet-unknown fate.
If Christians can take social Darwinism to its "logical conclusion" and relate it to the Holocaust and Stalin's brand of genocide, then I can safely and rightly take Christianity, in its purest form, to its "logical conclusion" and point out that it is little more than nihilist nonsense.
there is an error in your
there is an error in your argument that God knowing what we will do means we have no free will. God knows, yes. But we don't, do we? so every choice we make is ours, not God's. Saying that sinning doesn't matter because God already knows where we're going is not smart, because you make your choices and your life. By choosing to sin, you are the one that causes it to happen, not God. He just knew you were going to. If you sin because you don't think it matters, you're going to hell, but you can always make the choice to accept Jesus, and then you are making your own future. This is the problem with some forms of Calvinism: they say that there are those predestined to go to Heaven so it doesn't matter if you sin. The problem is, THEY DON'T KNOW WHO IS GOING TO HEAVEN. you're the one who makes the choice, not God. He doesn't come down and force your hand everytime you make a choice, but He does know what choice you will make. That's free will in its truest form: even if He knows you're making the wrong choice, He won't force you to stop. does that make sense?
You're forgetting that an
You're forgetting that an all powerful god could create human beings any way she wanted. If an all knowing, all powerful god created humans, then she created them specifically in such a way that she knew they would "sin." An all powerful god that didn't want humans to "sin" would've created humans differently.
Exactly how does this
Exactly how does this argument help atheism? It allows for the existence of a malevolent God (and perhaps may even support this conclusion, if you think about it).
Um, as an card carrying,
Um, as an card carrying, capital "A", got the t-shirt, book, and bumper sticker, Athiest, I feel ok allowing for malevolent "gods". Its the worship of deities that athiesm is specifically refuting, and by association, athiesm is agaisnt most organized religion since a lot of it is predicated on the worship of gods. By worship, I mostly mean wishing for stuff, thinking we're inherently lesser beings, and rationalizing evil to others; that pretty much covers the utility of organized religion for the most part.
God is still supposedly
God is still supposedly capable of preventing natural disasters, diseases, and accidents. Is God not malevolent if he allows the death of a newborn due to reasons out of human control? Answer: yes.
don't be so sure and smug.
don't be so sure and smug. answer is no, newborn children are granted sure passage into heaven.
in the eyes of god you are not responsible for your sins until after age 11, religious adulthood. And for all you atheist if there is no god then why are y'all bothered by the very belief of his existence. why does it nag every waking moment y'all exist.
don't be so sure and smug.
don't be so sure and smug. answer is no, newborn children are granted sure passage into heaven.
in the eyes of god you are not responsible for your sins until after age 11, religious adulthood. And for all you atheist if there is no god then why are y'all bothered by the very belief of his existence. why does it nag every waking moment y'all exist.
"To prevent evil, God would
"To prevent evil, God would have to force every person to do what is exactly perfect, like slavery."
False dilemma fallacy. It's not simply God allows evil or we surrender free will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
The third option available to an all powerful all knowing god is knowing how to and then having the ability to implement a system for personal growth that does not require evil (or duality in general) and yet still leave room for free will. The question then becomes if he knows how, and he can, then why doesn't he? Which is pretty much the whole point of the quote.
Thank you for playing. Next?
This is not a good argument
This is not a good argument for atheism.
The answer to the nature of God is that He is able to prevent evil, but in a sense not willing. However, this does not necessarily make Him malevolent. A further explanation ensues:
To prevent evil, God would have to force every person to do what is exactly perfect, like slavery. All people would just be mini-gods, who would have no enjoyment to live or die for. Would a loving God want humans to exist like this? No. And, if this did happen, God would be the one commiting evil.
Plus, God gave all humans a conscience, so they could know right and wrong, and feel guilt when performing wrong, thus making the world less evil.
This perception of God makes the argument of this image fall apart.
see above comment on
see above comment on malevolent gods
But lots of humans have obviously been short changed on conscience, which is also unfair, and tragic in that it allows them to act without this cognizance of right and wrong you mention.
Either way, an act in the absence of a conscience is no less evil than in the face of it, however it might reflect on the actor.
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